♪ ♪ ♪ >> Catherine Buell, director of the Amazon Housing Equity Fund, next on "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Major funding for "The Chavis Chronicles" is provided by the following.

At Wells Fargo, we are committed to diversity and understand our responsibility in supporting and empowering diverse communities.

Diversity and inclusion is integral to the way we work.

Supporting the financial health of our diverse customers and employees is one of the many ways we remain invested in inclusion for all today, tomorrow, and in the future.

American Petroleum Institute -- through the core elements of API's Energy Excellence Program, our members are committed to accelerating safety, environmental and sustainability progress throughout the natural-gas and oil industry in the U.S. and around the world.

You can learn more at api.org/apiEnergyExcellence.

Reynolds American, dedicated to building a better tomorrow for our employees and communities.

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♪ ♪ >> Catherine Buell, welcome to "The Chavis Chronicles."

You are the director of Amazon's Home Equity Fund.

>> Amazon's Housing Equity Fund.

Correct.

>> Why is Amazon committed to housing?

>> Yes.

So I feel like I lucked up into the greatest position at Amazon.

I was brought on a little bit over two years ago to help Amazon think through its affordable housing strategy.

We recognize, as one of the nation's largest employers, that we have an impact on housing and particularly in our hometown communities.

Our hometown in the Puget Sound, in Seattle, Washington.

But we also expanded into the capital region, into Washington, D.C., to put our second headquarters.

And so we wanted to do something that was large and impactful on housing.

Most employers don't weigh in on housing issues, but we believe that while the government is first and foremost in charge of affordable housing, there's something that we can do as a company.

And so in 2021, actually on January 6th, we launched our two-plus-billion-dollar effort to preserve or create 20,000 affordable housing units across three of our hometown communities, focusing on the Puget Sound, Nashville, Tennessee, and the Arlington, Virginia, and D.C. communities.

>> So that's across the country, the state of Washington, Tennessee, and in the greater Washington area.

>> That's correct.

>> And you come from a family that also has some involvement in housing.

>> I do.

My mother actually worked for HUD for close to 40 years.

So this is -- She started at HUD when HUD was a baby agency, if you can believe it.

>> Your mother worked there for 40 years?

>> For 40 years, her entire career, because coming out of -- She went to Hampton, coming out of -- >> Another great HBCU.

>> Correct.

And my grandmother went to Hampton.

Coming out of college, there weren't a lot of places that African-Americans could work.

And so she started out actually in the relocation office where a lot of African-Americans were located, moved into new work.

She tells me the story about how some of the Black Panthers actually held her and her boss and some of her colleagues into a room when the urban renewal plan was being renegotiated.

And it was tough.

But just the level of respect she had for people who would speak up for their communities was something that I had heard about all of my life and that carried forward through her entire career and inspired me to move in to community development and affordable housing.

>> So now we understand why Amazon chose you... >> [ Laughs ] >> ...of all the people in the country to lead this equity fund.

Tell us a little bit more details about the mission of this fund.

>> So we are using our voice and quite frankly, the power of our purse to invest in affordable housing.

Housing is not a cheap issue.

It is not an issue for the weary.

And there are very few private corporations that are stepping into housing, particularly in areas like the capital region.

There are a number of tech firms starting with Microsoft, to announce affordable housing commitments.

Microsoft was the first to come out with a $500 million commitment, which they've since increased to $750 million.

Google has a commitment to do affordable housing as does Facebook.

And so Amazon came in with our own commitment, but we're operating this in a unique way.

So we are going into deals and transactions directly.

Rather than using third-party intermediaries, we're identifying project sponsors either for-profit or not-for-profit partners who are willing to develop affordable housing and maintain that housing as affordable over the long term.

Our first project was actually closed in 2020, where we invested over $380 million to help convert a property a block away from HQ2 into a workforce housing property.

And that's going to be affordable for 99 years, which means not only when my children but when my children's children are around, we're going to have an affordable asset in the middle of Amazon's growing community.

That was really important for us as we established a fund to make sure that not only are we able to approach things differently, but we're able to have a direct, real and immediate impact on the housing market.

>> It's a great example of corporate social responsibility.

>> Yes.

>> Do you think there are going to be more public-private collaborations even with the government, state level, federal?

Because the housing situation is a great need for all Americans.

>> Yes.

We're hoping so because having a corporation like Amazon come in and show that you can not only deploy the dollars quickly at speed of market, but also you can have a deep impact, we're hoping to inspire others.

I'll give you an example of some of the new players that we're bringing to the table -- transit agencies.

Most people don't think that your public transit agency has anything to do with housing, but a lot of public transit agencies actually have land and they have the most valuable land in your community.

And so we partner with the transit agencies in each of our three cities that we're targeting to build affordable housing near transit, public transit stations.

Essentially what we've been able to do is close on over a thousand homes at transit stations to here in the Capital Region and New Carrollton, which is a regional hub.

We're building close to 200 units of affordable housing.

>> For our viewers, New Carrollton is a major transit location.

>> That is.

It is.

>> Amtrak and for Maryland.

>> Yes.

[ Laughs ] So we're building affordable housing there.

We're also building affordable housing in College Park adjacent to University of Maryland.

Same thing in the Puget Sound.

We're building affordable housing near our new expanded Bellevue corporate offices, as well as near some of our distribution facilities.

Being able to bring those transit agencies to the table to say, "Hey, we have the money, we have the financing to make these affordable housing plans possible," we've seen a whole new opportunity open up just in transportation alone to the tune of $300 million and close to 3,000 new homes that are going to be built.

>> I noticed that you're also helping minority developers.

>> Yes.

>> If you go to these major cities across the United States, it's hard to find a major African-American or person of color who's a developer of the housing.

>> Yes.

>> So tell us what Amazon is doing about this.

>> Yes, this is actually one of my favorite things about the Amazon Housing Equity Fund is that our middle name is "equity," and we took that commitment to equity seriously.

When we look -- When I first started at Amazon, I got a list of 30 or so unsolicited proposals.

None of them were from people of color.

And that was not a dis on Amazon.

It really spoke to who has those relationships with corporate executives that can get a proposal in front of the right person.

>> Right.

>> And so what we decided is that we were going to make a real commitment to partnering with minority developers.

We're finding in places like Washington, D.C., the district has invested for decades in minority development firms.

And so there are ample partners.

We actually expect that one of our partners, Jair Lynch, will almost have 10% of the $2 billion commitment.

It's amazing.

But in other jurisdictions, you don't have the same capacity.

So we committed $21 million to what we're calling our accelerator program, and we're partnering with minority-led organizations, Capital Impact Partners in HQ2, the Urban League of Middle Tennessee and Nashville, and LISC in the Puget Sound to be able to provide mentorship, training and most importantly, access to capital to those minority development firms.

>> $21 million.

>> $21 million.

>> To help train, mentor, develop minority developers.

>> Correct.

And we already have 40 of the fellows identified.

Most of the the participants in our program are already developers.

They already have a portfolio, but they want to do more in affordable housing.

And so we're coming in and making it as easy as possible, supporting their plan, supporting their vision, and hopefully identifying a number of properties.

We've already invested with our first minority developer, and I'll give you an example of how unique it is.

We're partnering with an organization called GardnerGlobal.

Jaebadiah Gardner actually is from Seattle -- from the northwest region.

He went to University of Washington.

He's been doing development in Seattle for some time.

He's been working with a number of churches in Seattle, and he actually worked with a church in the Central District, which was the area where African-Americans were restricted in Seattle.

And he was able to buy their property.

So we gave him a $4.5 million grant to buy property in the middle of the Central District.

So now you have a Black man owning property that will be developed for affordable housing in the middle of an area that has historically been focused on African-American communities.

>> Well, you know, Catherine, one of the issues that we are facing in many of our communities -- gentrification.

>> Yes.

>> Tell us what Amazon is doing, this initiative in housing, can help maybe reverse some of this gentrification.

>> Yeah, so we do it two ways, and I'll give you two examples.

One, here in the Capital Region where we locked arms with Arlington County and we provided $160 million of financing.

They provided another $150 million of financing to help a mission-driven partner acquire a property called the Barcroft.

It's 60 acres.

It's primarily Latino families living there, 100 -- sorry, 1,334 units.

So a huge community with no protections.

It went up for sale.

We helped the mission-driven partner, Jair Lynch, purchase that property and retain all of those units as affordable over the long term.

The other thing that we've done is we've invested in homeownership, and it's something that we're looking into more and more.

In Nashville, we targeted and we partnered with the Housing Fund, which is an existing nonprofit that operates in Nashville, wonderful, led by Marshall Crawford.

They've been operating in the homeownership space for some time, but Nashville increased their property taxes in the middle of COVID 34%.

They went and then went back and increased their property taxes even more after reassessing the properties.

For most people of color, that means now you can't afford your property taxes.

And so Amazon stepped in with a $3.75 million grant to the Housing Fund, and we're now helping to pay the difference in the property taxes.

And we've been able to help over 700 families in Nashville alone stay in their houses.

So it's both building new housing that folks can afford, but also making sure that the assets, affordable assets we have are retained and in the hands either on the rental side or on the homeownership side of our families of color.

>> What has been some response from communities where you are now and as people around the country hear about this billion-dollar commitment that Amazon has made?

>> Yeah.

Well, the responses ranged from "I didn't know that Amazon was doing this."

A bit of a surprise because we are clearly a tech company that likely comes to your door almost every day to of relief, honestly.

For minority developers and organizations led by developers of color, they have been part of the conversation but not always at the forefront and really validating the issues that development firms are dealing with, like the lack of access to capital, the fact that you don't have financial partners that make them a priority or if they're able to access that capital, the terms are so egregious, you can't get very far.

And so really being able to support those projects, put our money where our mouth is.

We started with a level of skepticism when we entered this.

But now that we're on our fourth or fifth closing with a minority developer, we're able to show by example what we're able to do and how we're able to support.

>> Most developers that we have talked to say their number-one problem was access to capital, to development capital.

>> Yeah.

>> Talk to us about how Amazon and other Big Tech companies can help provide capital for development.

>> The key is making sure that the capital is flexible.

The capital needs to be low cost.

But even things like equity requirements that minority development firms are required to bring to the table, lowering those equity requirements because most of the time they don't have the quick cash.

They're not bringing $3 million to $5 million to the table.

Maybe they're bringing a million dollars or half a million dollars.

What can we do to support them, to put them in the true ownership position despite the fact that they may have limited access to capital?

Cash rules.

So covering any predevelopment expenses.

For a lot of minority developers, they're having to carry anywhere between half a million to over $2 million of expenses before you even close on a deal.

That's just not realistic.

So being intentional about that.

And then the last thing is bringing in partners who are just as flexible as Amazon.

Amazon is not the only firm investing in minority developers.

So bringing in other equity providers who are interested in the space, who can also provide low-cost capital, flexible underwriting terms and a commitment to supporting those firms over the long term is really going to make the difference.

>> The Honorable Marcia Fudge is the Secretary of Housing and Urban Development.

How well will the Amazon Equity Fund work with H.U.D.

today?

>> Yes, so we would love to work with HUD.

We are following closely what Secretary Fudge is looking to do with her administration, particularly given some of the changes that are going on with the Federal Housing Finance Agency and emphasizing making sure that there is affordable housing capital out there being deployed by either Freddie Mac or Fannie Mae.

Also, there are some issues that are plaguing our country.

So, for example, there's been a spike in area median income calculations across the country.

Some cities are seeing the area median income increase as much as 15% in one year.

While the shutdown has been really hard for a lot of families, the shutdown has also been really good to a lot of families.

So incomes are rising in some of the major cities.

People are moving into them.

What that means is that rents can go up.

And so really talking about these national issues that HUD is grappling with and being able to come in as a supporter, an extra voice to validate what HUD and Secretary Fudge is dealing with, I think is really the way that we can help the most.

>> But we are finding in some urban areas appraisals of homes that are owned by African-Americans, or if an African-American wants to buy a home, sometimes they get different appraisals depending on their race.

>> Yes.

>> How do you challenge some of these systemic inequities, some of these disparities, and how persons of color are still being treated even when they have the money to buy?

>> A lot of it really is in our innovative approach.

And so while we can't -- We don't necessarily have the ability to take on the appraisal issue.

It's actually something Secretary Fudge and her team is taking on directly.

We can come in and make sure that our partners are either not engaging in the discriminatory practices.

So, for example, declining people because you're using a voucher when you're going into the housing and/or creating innovative structures that allow for more flexibility so you don't have those appraisal issues.

So we're looking at things like community land trust, shared equity programs so that we can intentionally get properties in the hands of minority borrowers and homeowners is something that we're looking to really invest in.

>> What is your recommendation given all you know about housing markets, particularly persons of color?

What should they do first if they want to get a home, be a first-time homeowner?

>> Educate yourself as much as possible.

I'm amazed at how many particularly potential homeowners of color don't take advantage of the programs that are out.

So, for example, in the district, the District of Columbia just announced a huge program to invest in homeownership.

They're looking to invest close to half a billion dollars in Black homeownership specifically in the district.

We're seeing other programs pop up that are $150 million, $50 million here.

So making sure that people are aware of what those programs are.

Folks like Mayor Bowser in the District are being mindful of the cost of housing.

So she's providing up to $200,000 grants to assist homeowners in purchasing properties.

So educate yourself.

>> Education.

>> Know about those properties.

And then also, don't be afraid to show up.

I know that there's a lot of rhetoric about appraisals and the difference in how African-Americans are treated in the housing market.

But sometimes you got to show up and say, "I'm a local and I want to live here."

Write a letter to the person you're trying to buy the property from.

If you're from Nashville and you want to buy a house in Nashville and you say, "I've grown up here," write a letter.

You'd be surprised.

If there are competing bids, you may actually get the house because there are property owners and homeowners who want to sell to somebody who is a local resident.

>> So education, showing up.

>> Yep.

>> What else should they do?

>> And then get your capital ready.

So preparation, preparation, preparation.

I had to actually talk to friends right before the shutdown about buying properties.

Interest rates were low.

Property values were relatively low and they hesitated.

And I really wish they had moved as quickly as the market because the market can change.

But if you need to start saving, start saving now.

If you need to start cleaning up your credit, clean up your credit now, because sometimes it does take years, but be ready when that opportunity presents itself.

>> Another kind of base, fundamental question for those that want to become housing developers, what do you recommend other steps for our listeners that really want to be developers of their community?

>> Yes.

Get experience.

I cannot understate how important experience is.

Housing development is very, very difficult.

Whether you're doing affordable housing development or for-profit housing development, there are so many different things that you have to pay attention to, not only all of the zoning requirements and building requirements and managing all the general contractors, but also the back office.

How are you going to manage your business?

How are you going to make sure that you have consistent cash flow despite the fact that you may have to put out a large amount of money up front to be able to advance a development?

So the more experience you have, I actually got my experience working for D.C. government.

I got hard-core experience on the ground by showing up in rooms at that because I'm an attorney by trade wouldn't necessarily show up in.

And so being creative about how you get that experience and then also potentially starting small start where where you're at and build up over time, it makes a difference.

>> How will people access this training and mentorship program that Amazon has set up for developers?

>> Yeah, so we actually already selected our 40 fellows, and we are looking forward to rolling out information about all of our fellowship programs.

For those who are interested in being able to participate, maybe not necessarily as a fellow, but on a smaller scale, we also have equitable development grants focused on minority-led organizations who are looking to do pre-development work, who maybe need organizational capacity building or some other support.

So if you go to amazon.com/housingequity, you can find additional information about all of our programs and the way that people can get involved.

>> Get a list of the information and the steps that they need to take?

>> Correct.

>> Now, Catherine, are we making progress on housing equity in America?

>> Yeah.

I'm a firm believer that we are, but I don't think we're there yet.

But the fact that corporations are willing to put their money where their mouth is and really allocate true resources is inspiring.

So the fact that Amazon not only gave us funding for affordable housing, but a real number -- We got close to $3 billion when you add up all of our different programs.

That is major progress.

However, it doesn't mean that the road is done.

So we are seeing that there's almost a relaxation of the movement that's going on.

So there was a lot of chatter around Black Lives Matter and people are getting a little fatigued.

We don't want them to get fatigued.

We want to see real progress.

We're having more and more conversations about equity issues and the importance of equity issues, but they're not easy issues to solve.

And so it's going to take us years to really see the kinds of progress that we want to see.

But having leadership from Secretary Fudge to Kamala Harris to companies like Amazon stepping in to say this is a real issue, I'm encouraged that we're actually going to see real progress.

It's just going to take some real time.

>> So, this is a long-term commitment by Amazon, not just short term because it's a catchy phrase to do?

>> Correct.

Correct.

The Housing Equity Fund -- We're starting with a five-year commitment to reach that 20,000-unit goal.

Given the fact that Amazon has been in the space for some time, I'm confident that Amazon is going to continue to push on housing issues because it doesn't just affect our hometown communities.

We operate around the globe.

I'm amazed when we make announcements, we get outreach from almost every country around the world saying "we want that Housing Equity Fund here" because we're seeing housing supply issues and housing affordability issues.

It affects so many different countries.

>> In terms of employment in the industry, in the housing industry, are there any workforce development training programs?

>> There are a number of workforce development training programs and so many of those are driven by the local governments.

And so in the District of Columbia, they are one of the leaders in workforce development and making sure that residents have access to those construction jobs.

We're also seeing a lot of creativity by our partners and being intentional about partnering with development or construction firms led by people of color, because they tend to hire people of color to work on the projects.

And so we're attacking it from two different ways, mindful of those government programs that are currently effective and operating, but also working with partners who are really going to lean in and making sure that they have a diverse workforce.

>> Right.

Have you been back to Spelman?

>> I have, and I actually plan to go to homecoming this year.

>> Very good.

Very good.

It seems your career would be very inspirational not only to other graduates of Spelman, but all the historically black colleges and universities, HBCUs across the country.

>> I hope so.

When I was at Spelman, I remember daydreaming about having a real impactful job in community development, and I would have never dreamed that it would have been this job in community development.

But it's inspiring to see that I can go to a place and have an idea planted in me, and then 20 years later, actually see what that idea turned into.

>> Well, it only shows you that dreams come true.

>> That's right.

>> Listen, Catherine Buell, thank you for joining "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Thank you so much for having me.

>> For more information about "The Chavis Chronicles" and our guests, please visit our website at thechavischronicles.com.

Also, follow us on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram and TikTok.

>> Major funding for "The Chavis Chronicles" is provided by the following.

At Wells Fargo, we are committed to diversity and understand our responsibility in supporting and empowering diverse communities.

Diversity and inclusion is integral to the way we work.

Supporting the financial health of our diverse customers and employees is one of the many ways we remain invested in inclusion for all today, tomorrow, and in the future.

American Petroleum Institute -- through the core elements of API's Energy Excellence Program, our members are committed to accelerating safety, environmental and sustainability progress throughout the natural-gas and oil industry in the U.S. and around the world.

You can learn more at api.org/apiEnergyExcellence.

Reynolds American, dedicated to building a better tomorrow for our employees and communities.

Reynolds stands against racism and discrimination in all forms and is committed to building a more diverse and inclusive workplace.

At AARP, we are committed to empowering people to choose how they live as they age.

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