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TED: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," A RECENT COURT RULING BEING MAKE WAY FOR MORE HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS DESPITE STATE CONCERNS OVER A LACK OF GROUND WATER.

>>> ALSO TONIGHT, A NEW STUDY TRACKS DEMENTIA IN OLDER SHELTER RESIDENTS.

>>> A NEW CONNECTION OF WHALE FOSSIL AND GLOBAL WARMING DATING BACK MILLIONS OF YEARS.

THOSE STORIES AND MORE NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

.

TED: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

A RECENT DECISION BY A MARICOPA COUNTY SUPERIOR COURT JUDGE STRUCK DOWN THE STATE WATER DEPARTMENT'S REGULATION THAT REQUIRES DEVELOPERS SHOWING A 100-YEAR SHARED WATER SUPPLY ALSO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL WATER TO OFFSET USE OF GROUND WATER.

IT SHOULD OPEN NEW HOME BUILDING INCLUDING IN BUCKEYE AND QUEEN CREEK.

JOINING US IS SARAH PORTER, DIRECTOR OF ASU'S KYL CENTER FOR WATER POLICY AT THE MORRISSON INSTITUTE.

THE JUDGE -- WHAT EXACTLY DID THE JUDGE DO?

>> WELL, THE JUDGE ISSUED A RULING IN JUNE THAT FOUND INVALID OR VOID A NEW PATH TO PROVING UP THE 100-YEAR WATER SUPPLY THAT IS NEEDED TO BE ALLOWED TO DEVELOP A NEW SUBDIVISION, WHICH MEANS BREAKING UP A PIECE OF THE LAND TO MORE PEARLSES.

PREVIOUSLY A JUDGE ISSUED A RULING THAT FOUND INVALID, THE DETERMINATION OR THE WAY THE DEPARTMENT OF WATER RESOURCES IS APPLYING ITS RULES ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S ENOUGH GROUND WATER, A NONRENEWING RESOURCE TO MEET THE HUNDRED-YEAR ASSURED WATER SUPPLY.

THERE ARE TWO RULINGS THAT PULL THE RUG OUT OF THE CHANGES OR THE APPROACHES THAT THE STATE HAD BEEN TAKING TO ALLOW DEVELOPMENT IN THE GREATER PHOENIX AREA AND PANEL AREA.

TED: YEAH, AND WE SHOULD MENTION THAT THE RULINGS, BOTH OF THE RULINGS, THE JUDGE BASICALLY SAID THE STATE WATER DEPARTMENT, THE DEPARTMENT OF WATER RESOURCES, YOU DON'T HAVE THIS KIND OF AUTHORITY?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

IN ONE CASE THE JUDGE FOUND THEY HADN'T GONE THROUGH RULE MAKING PROPERLY IN THE WAY THEY APPLIED THE CONCLUSIONS OF THEIR MODEL TO SAY THERE'S NOT ENOUGH WATER TO CONTINUE TO HAVE GROUND WATER RELIANT DEVELOPMENT.

THIS IS BASICALLY IN THE -- AS YOU SAID BEFORE, THE MORE OUTLYING PARTS OF GREATER PHOENIX.

AND THEN IN THE SECOND RULING, THE JUDGE SAID THAT THE DEPARTMENT DIDN'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO CREATE THIS ALTERNATIVE PATH FOR DEVELOPMENT.

TED: IS THIS THE ONE WHERE HE CALLED IT A TAX?

>> YEAH, I THINK HE SAID WE DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT TOO MUCH WHETHER IT'S A TAX.

CERTAINLY THE PLAINTIFFS, THE PEOPLE WHO CHALLENGED THIS NEW RULE CALLED IT TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

TED: SO THIS BASICALLY PUTS EVERYTHING BACK BEFORE THE 2023 MORATORIUM, CORRECT?

>> IT APPEARS TO.

IT'S ALWAYS A LITTLE UNCLEAR IN THESE KINDS OF CASES, BUT IT DOES SEEM TO PUT THE DEPARTMENT OF WATER RESOURCES BACK TO BEFORE THEY UPDATED THEIR GROUND WATER MODEL, AND THEY FOUND THAT THERE WAS A SUPPLY-DEMAND GAP FOR THE PHOENIX AMA.

TED: BECAUSE IT GOES BACK TO 2023, DOESN'T GO BACK FURTHER, SO THE 100-YEAR REQUIREMENT IS STILL THERE FOR ACTIVE MANAGEMENT AREAS.

>> THE ASSURED WATER SUPPLY APPLIES, BUT THE JUDGE HAS SAID IN THAT RULING ON THE MORATORIUM THAT THE DETERMINATION CAN'T BE MADE ACROSS THE WHOLE PHOENIX AREA.

THIS GROUND WATER AREA CALLED THE ACTIVE MANAGEMENT AREA, THE SAME MORATORIUM HAD BEEN IMPLEMENTED IN THE PINAL ACTIVE MANAGEMENT AREA, PINAL COUNTY BETWEEN PHOENIX AND TUCSON IN 2019.

SO THE COURT SAID THERE HAS TO BE A SPECIFIC DETERMINATION IN THE CASE OF EACH AND EVERY APPLICATION ABOUT WHETHER THERE IS SUFFICIENT WATER, GROUND WATER, NOT AN AMA-WIDE DETERMINATION.

TED: WHERE YOU'RE BUILDING AS OPPOSED TO WHERE EVERYTHING IS.

>> AS OPPOSED TO ALL THE WELLS, RIGHT.

TED: AND THE IMPACT ON THE BUCKEYES AND THE QUEEN CREEKS, AND THE PINAL COUNTY AREAS, IN TERMS OF HOME BUILDING, SEEM LIKE THE HOME BUILDERS MEANS EASIER PERMITTING, MORE HOUSING, A LOT MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS A LOT MORE HOUSING.

>> TECHNICALLY, THAT'S THE CASE, THAT IT CLEARS THE WAY FOR THEM TO PROVE UP THE 100-YEAR ASSURED WATER SUPPLY, THAT WOULD BE HOW THEY READ IT.

NOW WE CAN HAVE THIS INDIVIDUAL DETERMINATION MADE FOR OUR SUBDIVISION AND GOING TO USE LOCAL GROUND WATER TO DEVELOP, BUT THERE'S ANOTHER HURTLE, WHICH IS WE HAVE THIS AGENCY THAT'S PART OF CENTRAL ARIZONA PROJECT, THAT'S REQUIRED TO FIND ENOUGH WATER TO REPLENISH THE GROUND WATER THAT'S USED IN THESE LOCAL SUBDIVISIONS, AND THE CENTRAL ARIZONA GROUND WATER REPLENISHMENT DISTRICT HAS BEEN SAYING IN THE LAST FEW YEARS, THIS IS LOOKING MORE AND MORE DIFFICULT.

THE COST OF THOSE REPLENISHMENTS, THESE AREN'T THE WATER SUPPLIES FOR DELIVERING WATER TO THE TAPS.

THIS IS WATER THAT GOES INTO THE GROUND SOMEWHERE, AND THEY'RE SAYING THE COSTS ARE GOING TO GO UP, IT'S GETTING HARDER AND HARDER TO FIND THEM.

SO THERE'S A CHANCE THAT THERE WILL BE SOME PUSHBACK OR SOME SORT OF HIGHER HURTLE, LET'S SAY FOR HOME BUILDING TO HAVE TO GET OVER TO MAKE SURE THAT THE CENTRAL ARIZONA GROUND WATER REPLENISHMENT DISTRICT CAN GET THE SUPPLIES THEY NEED.

TED: LET'S TALK ABOUT THE CENTRAL ARIZONA PROJECT AND COLORADO RIVER WATER, AND WE'RE STILL WAITING TO FIND OUT IF THE FEDS ARE TAKING CONTROL HERE.

I'M SURE WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET AN AGREEMENT, BUT WHAT'S NEXT WITH THIS?

WHAT'S THE LATEST?

>> WELL, WE'RE STILL WAITING FOR A FINAL ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT STATEMENT THAT WILL GIVE US A VERY GOOD INDICATION OF WHAT THE FEDS PLAN TO DO, AND THEY'VE INDICATED THAT THEY'RE GOING TO LOOK AT SHORTER-TERM OPERATING GUIDELINES, PLANS.

BUT I THINK THE LONG AND THE SHORT OF IT FOR PEOPLE LIVING IN PHOENIX OR TUCSON OR PINAL IS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT POTENTIALLY VERY DEEP CUTS.

WE'VE BEEN THINKING -- A LOT OF PEOPLE THINKING, MAYBE 30%, NOW GOOD REASON TONG MAYBE AS DEEP AS ALMOST 80%.

TED: HOLY SMOKES.

>> BECAUSE OF TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE SNOWPACK AND THE PRECARIOUS STATE OF THE RESERVOIRS.

TED: IS THIS ONE OF THE TWO YEAR DEALS WE'RE HEARING ABOUT AS OPPOSED TO THE 30-YEAR OR 20-YEAR?

>> I THINK THE TWO-YEAR PROPOSAL MAY BE INTEGRATED INTO WHAT THE FEDS DECIDE DO, WHICH IS ALREADY BIG CUTS, BUT WE HAVE NO REASON NOT TO EXPECT EVEN DEEPER CUTS.

TED: LAST QUESTION, THIS IS HEADED TO COURT, IF IT'S ANYWHERE NEAR 80%, THIS HAS TO GO TO COURT, AND ARIZONA IS GOING TO SAY 1922 AGREEMENT HAS TO HOLD?

>> YEAH, VERY LIKELY, ARIZONA OR OTHER WATER USERS AND MAYBE EVEN IN CALIFORNIA, WILL CHALLENGE A DETERMINATION BY THE FEDS, DEPENDING ON WHAT THEY DO, CUTS THEY MAKE, AND THEN WE'LL HAVE AT LEAST A DECADE OF LITIGATION OVER THE INTERPRETATION OF ARTICLE 3D OF THE COLORADO COMPACT.

>> THE BOTTOM LINE IS WHETHER OR NOT YOU GET THAT WATER THROUGH HERE.

>> YEAH, AND I THINK THE BOTTOM LINE FOR THIS REGION IS WE NEED TO START LOOKING AT HOW TO BRING IN NEW WATER SUPPLIES WITH MORE URGENCY THAN WE HAVE BEEN.

WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON NEW WATER SUPPLIES, BUT NOW WE'RE REALLY SEEING THAT WE NEED TO DO THIS WITH GREAT SPEED.

TED: THAT'S A CONVERSATION WE WILL HAVE AT ANOTHER TIME, BUT THANK YOU FOR THIS CONVERSATION, SARAH PORTER, ASU KYL CENTER FOR WATER POLICY AT THE MORRISSON INSTITUTE, THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

.

TED: NEW RESEARCH IS LOOKING AT COGNITIVE IMPAIRMENT OF OLDER SHELTER RESIDENTS AFTER THEY TRANSITION INTO HOUSING.

ARIZONA'S LARGEST SHELTER CASS IS SCREENING FOR SIGNS OF POSSIBLE DEMENTIA AND ANALYZING CHANGES ONCE THE CLIENTS LEAVE A MASS SHELTER AND ENTER A PRIVATE LIVING SPACE.

WE WELCOME HEATHER ROSS FROM ASU'S COLLEGE OF NURSING, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

TED: OVERALL, THIS IS A STUDY OF DEMENTIA IN OLDER UNSHELTERED -- I SHOULD SAY SHELTERED FOLKS AS OPPOSED TO UNSHELTERED.

PROBABLY A WHOLE DIFFERENT STUDY.

>> IT IS A DIFFERENT STUDY.

YES, WE'RE LOOKING AT UNHOUSED OLDER ADULTS.

THAT STARTS AT AGE 55 WHERE YOU ARE CONSIDERED OLDER ADULT, AND WE CAME TO THIS BECAUSE YEARS AGO, POLICE AND FIRE IN THE CITY OF PHOENIX CAME TO ME WHEN I HAPPENED TO BE HELPING OUT IN THE MAYOR'S OFFICE, AND THEY KNEW I WAS WORKING ON DEMENTIA AND I WAS ALSO WORKING ON SOME POLICING ISSUES, AND THEY SAID WE'RE SEEING OLDER ADULTS ON THE STREET AND SURE THEY HAVE DEMENTIA, BUT NOT WHAT WE CAN DO FOR THEM BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE A DIAGNOSIS.

WE WORKED WITH CASS, AND THEY STARTED SCREENING EVERY ADULT AGED 55 AND OVER WHO COME INTO SHELTER, START SCREENING FOR DEMENTIA AND COGNITIVE DECLINE, AND FOUND A LOT OF THEM HAVE DEMENTIA OR COGNITIVE IMPAIRMENT.

TED: A LOT OF THEM, SOUNDS LIKE 90%.

>> UH-HUH.

TED: DOES THAT SURPRISE YOU?

>> IT SHOCKED ME, AND, YES AND ALSO NO, AND WHAT IT TOLD ME IS THAT THERE'S A PROBLEM THAT IS GIANT, THAT FRANKLY SOCIETY HAS BEEN WORKING VERY HARD TO MAKE INVISIBLE, SO WE HAVE TO MAKE IT VISIBLE.

TED: WHAT COMES FIRST?

DEMENTIA OR THE HOMELESSNESS OR VICE VERSA?

>> WE THINK THAT THE COGNITIVE DECLINE HAS A LOT TO DO WITH BECOMING UNHOUSED OR BECOMING HOMELESS.

WHAT'S THE FIRST THING YOU FORGET TO DO?

PAY YOUR BILLS, YOU LOSE YOUR APARTMENT AND DOWN THE ROAD.

>> THE STUDY LOOKS AT TAKING THE FOLKS, AND YOU WANT THEM TO GET INTO THEIR OWN HOME, YOU DON'T WANT THEM IN SHELTER FOR YOUR ENTIRE LIFE.

THE RESULTS WERE VERY INTERESTING FOR SOME.

TALK TO US ABOUT THAT.

>> SURE, THERE'S A STEP IN BETWEEN BEING IN A LARGE CONGREGATE SHELTER WHERE MORE THAN 100 PEOPLE ARE SLEEPING IN COTS OR BUNKS IN THE SAME SPACE.

BEFORE YOU GET TO YOUR OWN HOME, THERE'S A TRANSITIONAL NONCONGREGATE SHELTER, SO WE'VE SEEN THIS AROUND PHOENIX, WHERE WE'RE SEEING A LOT OF MOTELS GETTING CONVERTED INTO HOMELESS SHELTERS.

WHERE PEOPLE HAVE THEIR OWN SPACE WITH A DOOR THEY CAN CLOSE, IT'S NOT AN APARTMENT, BUT AT LEAST IT IS A LITTLE BIT MORE PRIVATE.

SO WHAT WE FOUND IN A VERY SMALL STUDY OF ONE OF THOSE EARLY ATTEMPTS AT NONCONGREGATE SHELTERING WAS THAT NOT EVERYBODY'S DEMENTIA SCREENING SCORE GOT BETTER.

SOME PEOPLE ACTUALLY GOT WORSE WHEN THEY WERE NOT IN THAT CONGREGATE SPACE ANYMORE.

TED: DOES THAT SURPRISE YOU?

>> SURPRISED THE HECK OUT OF ME, YES, BECAUSE I THOUGHT, GOSH, YOU'RE ABLE TO GET A BETTER NIGHT'S SLEEP, YOU'RE NOT CONCERNED THAT SOMEBODY IS GOING TO ATTACK AND YOU THINGS LIKE THIS, AND EVERYTHING IS GOING TO GET BETTER BUT NOT FOR EVERYBODY.

TED: I WOULD IMAGINE SOCIAL ISOLATION PLAYED A BIG PART THERE, DIDN'T IT?

>> THAT'S WHAT WE'RE THINKING.

WE'VE BEEN WORKING STILL WITH CASS WITH THEIR NEW HAVEN NONCONGREGATE SHELTER SITE FOR OLDER ADULTS.

WHAT WE'RE DOING, AFTER PEOPLE ARE IN SHELTER AT THE HAVEN, WE'RE RESCREENING THEM WITH THE HAVEN STAFF FOR THAT COGNITIVE DECLINE, BUT ALSO ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW DO YOU SPEND YOUR DAY?

ARE YOU WITH OTHER PEOPLE?

ARE YOU SOCIALIZING?

ARE YOU FEELING LONELY?

AND WE'RE USING SURVEY TOOLS TO DO THIS.

TED: FOR THOSE WHO DO FEEL LONELY AND SOCIALLY ISOLATED AND AREN'T DOING AS WELL AS WHEN THEY WERE IN THE MASS SHELTER, ARE YOU PUTTING THEM BACK IN THE MASS SHELTER?

>> WE'RE TRYING NOT TO BECAUSE WE STILL DO BELIEVE THAT FOR OVERALL HEALTH AND REST, BEING IN A LESS CONGREGATE SETTING, NOT BEING IN THE LARGE SHELTER, THAT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT STEP TO GETTING PEOPLE READY TO EVENTUALLY BE HOUSED IN THEIR OWN APARTMENT.

TED: YOU MENTIONED THE MIDDLE SPOT BETWEEN MASS SHELTER AND PRIVATE LIVING, COULD THERE BE YET ANOTHER STAGE WHERE THERE IS A LITTLE MORE COMMUNAL ACTIVITY?

YOU CAN STILL GO INTO YOUR OWN PLACE, BUT IF YOU WANT THE SETTING, YOU GOT IT.

>> WE HOPE SO, THERE ARE MODELS OF DIFFERENT SHELTERS BUT ALSO THE OPPORTUNITY TO BUILD IN COMMUNITY SPACES.

GATHERING ROOMS, CONFERENCE ROOMS OR OTHER PLANNED ACTIVITIES IN THESE NONCONGREGATE SHELTERS.

LOT OF WORDS.

TED: YEAH, LAST QUESTION, WHAT DO YOU WANT TO BECOME OF THIS RESEARCH?

>> WHAT I WANT TO BECOME OF THIS RESEARCH IS A FEW THINGS.

ONE, TO SHOW HOW IMPORTANT IT IS THAT WE HAVE THE CASE MANAGEMENT SERVICES TO MEET THE NEEDS OF INDIVIDUALS BECAUSE NOT EVERYBODY IS THE SAME.

AND, TWO, TO SHOW HOW IMPORTANT IT IS THAT WE'RE DOING RESEARCH, NOT ONLY WITH LARGE NUMBERS BUT ALSO TALKING TO PEOPLE BECAUSE AGAIN, INDIVIDUALS HAVE INDIVIDUAL NEEDS.

TED: VERY INTERESTING STUFF, HEATHER ROSS, ASU'S COLLEGE OF NURSING GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

>> THANK YOU.

.

TED: A NEW UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONA STUDY LOOKS AT VOLCANIC ACTIVITY IN THE ANDES MILLIONS OF YEARS AGO AND HOW THE ASH FROM THE ERUPTIONS LIKELY COOL THE EARTH, WHILE AT THE SAME TIME, MAKING FOR A ROUGH GO OF IT TO WHALES AND OTHER OCEAN MAMMALS DUE TO ASH IN THE ENVIRONMENT.

DR.

BARBIA CARRAPA AND DR.

KAUSTUBH THIRUMALAI FROM U OF A'S COLLEGE OF GEOSCIENCES.

BARBARA, HOW LONG AGO ARE WE TALKING HERE?

>> 7,000 YEARS AGO, GEOLOGICAL TIME SCALES.

TED: THESE ARE VOLCANIC ERUPTIONS THAT LIKELY COOL THE EARTH, THE ASHES, BUT THE ASHES DID A NUMBER ON THE OCEANS, WHAT'S GOING ON THERE?

>> THE CENTRAL ANDES, ABOUT 7 MILLION YEARS AGO WERE VERY, VERY ACTIVE.

TALKING ABOUT SOME OF THE BIGGEST AND STRONGEST VOLCANOES ON EARTH THAT WE KNOW OF.

THEY BASICALLY ERUPTED A LARGE AMOUNT OF ASH, WHICH EVENTUALLY WAS TRANSPORTED THROUGH WIND AND RIVERS INTO THE OCEANS AND MADE IT ALL THE WAY TO THE SOUTHERN OCEAN, WHICH IS A KEY PLACE FOR CLIMATE AND MARINE PRODUCTIVITY AND CARBON STORAGE, AND BECAUSE OF THAT, THEY SPARE MARINE PRODUCTIVITY PARTICULARLY PRIMARY PRODUCTIVITY, WHICH EVENTUALLY AFFECTED THE ENTIRE MARINE ECOSYSTEM GOING ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE WHALES, AND THESE EVENTUALLY IMPACTED THE OLD CARBON CYCLE AND BASICALLY INCREASED THE STORAGE OF CARBON INTO THE DEEP OCEAN, WHICH WE THINK EVENTUALLY IMPACTED GLOBAL CLIMATE.

TED: THAT AFFECTED IT AS WELL BUT ALSO AFFECTED WHALES.

KAUSTUBH, THIS THING IS BASED ON WHALE FOSSILS.

>> SO ONE OF THE REMARKABLE THINGS ABOUT WHALES, PARTICULARLY THESE BALEEN WHALES, THE GIANT, MOST LARGEST WHALES THAT EXIST TODAY.

GUESS WHAT?

THEY ARE THE LARGEST ANIMALS THAT EVER EXISTED IN EARTH HISTORY.

SO WEIRDLY ENOUGH, THEIR EVOLUTION AND WHEN THEY COME INTO THE RECORD, SEEM TOSCO INSIDE AFTER THIS VOLCANIC EVENT IN THE ANDES THAT WE UNCOVERED.

THEY COINCIDE WITH HOW THE BIG WHALES EVOLVED SEEM TOSCO INSIDE WITH THE VOLCANOES.

TED: COINCIDES BECAUSE THE ASH MADE FOR MORE NUTRIENTS IN THE OCEAN?

>> THAT'S CORRECT.

MORE NUTRIENTS IN THE OCEAN SPURS MORE PHYTOPLANKTON AND THE LARGE BALEEN WHEELS EAT THE PHYTOPLANKTON.

TED: I UNDERSTAND IT WAS NOT GOOD FOR THE WHALES.

>> WE THINK IT WAS HARMFUL TO THE WHALES AND LED TO THE MASSIVE DEATHBEDS AND ACCUMULATION THAT WE FIND IN SOUTHERN CHILE THIS A PLACE CALLED SEROBAENA WHERE THEY FOUND OVER 40 INDIVIDUAL CELLTONS OF BALEEN WHALES AND THIS SITE IS ONE OF THE BEST SITES CONTAINING THE MAMMALS AND SPECIFICALLY BALEEN WHALES, THERE IS AT LEAST WE CAN SEE THERE IS A COINCIDENCE BETWEEN THE VOLCANIC ACTIVITY AND WHEN WE SEE THE WHALES, IT ACTUALLY COINCIDES.

TED: KAUSTUBH, HOW DO YOU PUT THE TIMELINE BETWEEN THE MASS EXTINCTION OF WHALES AND OTHER MAMMALS AND THE CHANGE IN CLIMATE, THE VOLCANIC ASH, YOU PUT IT ALTOGETHER, DIDN'T YOU?

>> THE INTERESTING COMPONENT IS THE LOCAL VERSUS THE FAR FIELD IMPACT OF VOLCANOES.

IT SPURS THE HARMFUL ALGO BLOOMS.

STATEMENT, WIND CARRIES THE ASHES FAR AWAY INTO THE PROXIMAL ANTARCTICA, FOR EXAMPLE, AND SPURS ON THE MARINE ACTIVITY AND A GOOD THING FOR THAT REGION OVER THERE.

FOR THE PHYTOPLANKTON OVER THERE.

LOCALLY, HARMFUL, BUT GLOBALLY AND CLIMATEATICALLY VERY IMPACTFUL.

TED: DOES VOLCANIC ACTIVITY ALWAYS, EVER, OTHERWISE MEAN COOLING OF THE PLANET AT THAT TIME?

>> WELL, WE GENERALLY THINK ABOUT VOLCANOES, BIG ERUPTIONS, WE NEED TO CONSIDER VOLCANOES PRODUCE A LOT OF CO2 IN THE ATMOSPHERE, THAT ACTUALLY CREATES WARMING.

BUT WE SEE THROUGH THERE, THEY CAN FERTILIZE AND GIVE A LOT OF NUTRIENTS TO THE OCEAN, AND THAT CAN SPUR MARINE ACTIVITY THROUGH PHOTO SYNTHETIC PROCESSES CAN ACTUALLY DRAW DOWN CO2, AND EVENTUALLY ALL OF THE MARINE ECOSYSTEM INCLUDING THE WHALES THAT FEED OFF KRILL FEEDS OFF OF PHYTOPLANKTON, ALL OF THAT IMPACTS POSITIVELY IN TERMS OF DRAWING DOWN CO2 AND EVENTUALLY WHEN THEY DIE, THEY TAKE THE CO2 CARBON DOWN INTO THE DEEP OCEAN, AND THAT AFFECTS THE GLOBAL CARBON CYCLE, WHICH IN TURN CAN AFFECT CLIMATE ON GEOLOGICAL TIME SCALES.

>> YOU HAVE THE ASH MAKING FOR GLOBAL WARMING, IT GOES INTO THE OCEAN WHICH CHANGES THINGS AND MAYBE BECAUSE OF THE CO2 DOWN, THERE YOU DON'T HAVE GLOBAL WARMING ANYMORE.

IT'S A LITTLE CYCLICAL, HUH?

>> YES, BOTH IN TERMS OF LOCAL VERSUS FAR AFIELD AS WELL AS CO2 VERSUS THE ACTUAL ASH, THERE IS COOLING AS WELL AS WARMING.

A COMPLEX THING IN TERMS OF THE TIMING, THE PROCESSES AND THE LONGEVITY OF THE EFFECT.

TED: WAS THIS A MAJOR REASON FOR THE BIG CHANGES ON EARTH AT THIS TIME OR AMONG THE REASONS?

>> AMONG THE REASONS, THIS SEEMS TO BE A PRIMARY SUSPECT WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DEPOSIT IN OUR STUDY, THAT THIS SEEMS TO EXPLAIN A LOT OF THINGS THAT WE DIDN'T NECESSARILY KNOW ABOUT WHY THIS PARTICULAR PERIOD COOLED.

TED: BARBARA, WHAT DO WE TAKE FROM THE STUDY?

>> THE VOLCANOES FROM THE ANDES ARE IMPORTANT IN FERTILIZING THE OCEANS WHICH CAN IMPACT GLOBAL COOLING AND GLOBAL CLIMATE ON GEOLOGICAL TIMES.

TED: REAL QUICKLY, WAS THAT THE GEOLOGICAL TIMES WHICH THE ANDES WERE CREATED OR A LITTLE AFTER IT?

>> THE ANDES WERE FORMED EARLIER, BUT THIS TIME WAS VERY, VERY ACTIVE FOR THE ANDES AS WELL.

IT WAS A SPECIAL TIME ESPECIALLY IN TERMS OF ACTIVITY OF THE VOLCANIC ACTIVITY FOR THE ANDES.

TED: IS THERE A NEXT FOR THE RESEARCH?

>> THE IMPORTANT TIME, THIS TIME IS VERY IMPORTANT ALSO, THE COOLING BECAUSE IT'S THE TIME OUR OWN ANCESTORS COME INTO THE RECORD IN TERMS OF THE HOMONIDS AND ANCESTORS, TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE TIMING, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO MOVE FORWARD ON THIS.

TED: KAUSTUBH, BARBARA, THANK YOU FOR COMING UP FROM TUCSON, THANK YOU, BOTH, APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU.

TED: THAT IS IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.